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Intro Theme Music plays…

Female Announcer (Cynthia Griffith)
This is behind the cut with Christopher Gronlund. The companion show to Not About Lumberjacks.

Christopher Gronlund
While I write everything for Not About Lumberjacks, and narrate most of it myself, regular listeners know I sometimes rely on help from others. With the latest story, “Waking the Lumberjack” being a one-shot audiodrama, I brought in a handful of people. Tim Czarnecki, whom I’ve known for over 30 years, plays the narrator in the episode.

Much like the Behind the Cut interview I did with the narrator of the previous November anniversary episode, when I spoke with Michael Howie about narrating “The Hidebehind,” I thought it would be fun to sit down and chat with Tim.

INTERVIEW BEGINS

Christopher Gronlund
All right, let’s get the question that gets to most people out of the way. Tell us who you are, Tim.

Tim Czarnecki
Okay, uh…that’s a big question. I don’t have a very interesting answer, I’m afraid. I am a 50-something [year old] graphic artist and collector of role playing game books, who most of the time would rather be playing D&D.

Christopher Gronlund
I’m with you on that. I mean, we played Dungeons and Dragons every other week, at least–

Tim Czarnecki
At least.

Christopher Gronlund
Except for last month because we had some things come up. And it was like…

Tim Czarnecki
Yeah…

Christopher Gronlund
A whole month without D&D!

Tim Czarnecki
It was…it was very strange. But, like, when you go a long time without eating sweets or having a drink, for instance, when you finally do — when you finally get there, and you finally get to play again, it’s a blast. We had a great game last weekend.

Christopher Gronlund
One of the best games I…one of the best games of D&D I think I’ve ever played.

Tim Czarnecki
Yeah, it was a really good one.

Christopher Gronlund
I really had a great, great time. But we’re not talking about [D&D]…we should just do a D&D podcast someday… But…so how do we meet?

Tim Czarnecki
How did we meet? Uh, we both told the story many times.

Christopher Gronlund
[Laughter]

Tim Czarnecki
We met at a place called Teach House USA in Denton, Texas. And basically we were glorified door to door encyclopedia salesmen targeting especially vulnerable military families near the bases around North Texas, Southern Oklahoma…that kind of area.

Christopher Gronlund
Yeah, there was that one weekend they put me on a reservation, and the first house I went up to seriously had a plywood door with, like, two things where you could just see somebody twisted a knife to make holes and tied it to a structure with twine.

Tim Czarnecki
[Chuckling]

Christopher Gronlund
So I knew…that was the weekend I was just like, I went to the park and I don’t know what tribe they were with, but there were just some guys hanging out at picnic bench. They had a big cooler, they were cooking, they had beer, and I just hung out with them all day because I…I knew I wasn’t gonna sell encyclopedias.

Tim Czarnecki
Well, you–you had it a lot better than I did. I, as you know, from the years and years we’ve known each other, know that I’m a more…probably a more earnest person, and not in a good way. I mean earnest in a doofy way. So I really, really tried at this job and I still did not do very well.

And my main incident…the incident I will remember the most, is the time I got threatened by magazine salesman — one of them carrying a tire iron as they told me to get out of the area they were selling stuff in because I was on their turf.

Christopher Gronlund
It was…it was like something out of a movie. People only chased me out in neighborhoods thinking I was a child molester.

Tim Czarnecki
That…that’s probably just about as bad. I mean, with me it was like shitty Glengarry Glen Ross. You know, it’s like–

Christopher Gronlund
Yeah, like something out of, you know, an 80s John Cusak [movie]. You know, with the, “two dollars…” These guys are coming at you with, you know, tire irons and stuff. It’s like–and that, yeah, just that they were magazine salesmen chasing out encyclo–

Tim Czarnecki
Yeah.

Christopher Gronlund
I mean, that’s like the stuff of parody.

Tim Czarnecki
Uh, it is. And I think it would make a very interesting story. Maybe another Not About Lumberjacks story, who knows?

Christopher Gronlund
Hey, that’s actually a good idea…

Tim Czarnecki
[Laughing] Well, it was certainly interesting. But I will say that the best thing that happened was that I met Chris working at this place. And I think one of the things that we…we don’t — we talk about meeting there, but what really catalyzed our friendship, I would say, is I had been living in Denton and you know, whenever…when everything went belly up at Teach House for all of us.

Christopher Gronlund
Yeah, we’re all–

Tim Czarnecki
We all kind of left at the same time. I was going to have to leave Denton and move back to a small town far, far south of–

Christopher Gronlund
Hillsboro…

Tim Czarnecki
Far south of the DFW area called Hillsboro. I was going to have to move back with my parents. Now in my defense, the alternatives were living in my car or couch surfing, which was not really a thing back in the late 80s? I think that was?

Christopher Gronlund
Yeah, it was late — like ’88…’89, yeah?

Tim Czarnecki
But I happened to be driving home with probably the last of the stuff that I had in my apartment up in Denton, and I happened to be…it just-so-happened that Chris was driving on the same highway. This is a highway mind you.

Christopher Gronlund
I was coming off…I was actually coming home from a job at the sprout farm getting on 35. And I was like, “That looks like Tim’s car…”

Tim Czarnecki
So this guy chases me down in the car. We pull over to the side of the road and we chit-chat for a little while. And, basically, one thing led to another…he invited me to come up and visit them, and…I met a whole group of friends that really my formative friends: my friends, from my late 20s to mid 30s. You know, that was where I met many other people that became such a huge part of…of who I am today. And if it weren’t for Teach House USA and Chris chasing me down on a highway, it would have never have happened. So…

Christopher Gronlund
There you go. Well, neither of us believe in destiny. But–

Tim Czarnecki
That’s right.

Christopher Gronlund
That’s probably the closest I’ll ever come to going, “Ehhhh, okaaaaay…”

Tim Czarnecki
Yeah. [Laughter]

Christopher Gronlund
So, what did you think when it came to you asking if you wanted to play the narrator in “Waking the Lumberjack?”

Tim Czarnecki
Obviously, I was very flattered. I have listened to Not about Lumberjacks for quite some time. As well as, uhm, Hell Comes With Wood Paneled Doors, which we also enjoyed quite a bit. My…my wife is the one who got me to listen to that.

Christopher Gronlund
Yeah.

Tim Czarnecki
The whole way through. But Not About Lumberjacks is just the perfect length for me to listen to. It’s a perfect length story for me listen to while I’m working. Generally, I don’t listen to actual stories because I lose the thread too quickly if it’s a long form story. So this is…that’s one of the main reasons I started listening. Plus, it’s you — so of course I’m going to listen because I love it. I love your sense of humor. I love the way you think. And that just is a way for me to enjoy it when you’re not around. So yeah, I was flattered.

Christopher Gronlund
All right. Very, very cool. You did a very great job. And that’s not just me saying it. Other people who listen, really loved what you did. Do you have any background and acting? I mean, like, you could even go way back.

Tim Czarnecki
Well, I have to go way back. You know that when we’ve talked about every once in a while, when I was in high school, I got involved in drama. I didn’t really think I would be the kind of person to be good at it. I was relatively shy at that point. But once I did it, I was hooked and I really loved it. And even before then, back in the days of cassette tapes, I would record myself being all of the characters in a…in an offbeat episode of the Bugaloos or Sigmund and the Sea Monsters or something weird like that…and play it for my little sisters…who, thankfully, were young enough that they thought everything I did was hilarious.

Christopher Gronlund
[Laughter]

Tim Czarnecki
And they laughed all the way through despite how goofy it probably really was.

Christopher Gronlund
Man, that would be great to hear some of those old tapes. I don’t…

Tim Czarnecki
I don’t know if those even still exist anymore.

Tim Czarnecki
My sister and I, when I got one of the big oversized Star Wars comic books, we divvied up different roles and we did, like, a dramatic reading of the Star Wars comic.

Tim Czarnecki
[Laughter]

Christopher Gronlund
I wish…I think the only tape I have, thinking about it, is my friends up north, the Cacioppo brothers, crank calling people…and at one point my friend Paul and I threatened to beat up his little brother unless he sings “Run to the Hills” by Iron Maiden. So I have him, under forced duress, singing “Run to the Hills.” It’s…it’s horrible.

Tim Czarnecki
[Laughter] If only–

Christopher Gronlund
I think that’s the only cassette I have from my youth.

Tim Czarnecki
That…that sounds like something that would have been very popular back in the 80s to do on, like, the zoo radio type shows.

Christopher Gronlund
Yeah, I mean it was…you know, but it was like really stupid crank calls because we were seventh…eighth graders. But–

Tim Czarnecki
That’s the best time.

Christopher Gronlund
It…it really is. So…uhm…

We, you know…we’ve known each other 30 years. We used to do comic books together. Tim’s done logos and art that I’ve used in presentations. He was…actually, this is not Tim’s first appearance on Not About Lumberjacks. He was one of two people in Episode 16: Bobo…the one about the clown who yelled, “Fuck you, clown!” Tim and his son. But it’s been a long time since we really sat down and collaborated on something together. So…how was it again working with each other for you?

Tim Czarnecki
Oh, it was fantastic. That’s one of the things I miss most about being…really about being in my late 20s, early 30s…was the time that you and I and Mark would spend working on comic books and…and other projects together. Sometimes just…anything that we worked on — I had a good time. I really felt like…I really felt like you and Mark really pushed me to be a better artist back then. And you listened to my ideas when I had them. As you know, I’m a wellspring of ideas that come and go quickly, and if I don’t do something with them right away, they usually drop off to the wayside very, very quickly. But yeah, I…I loved collaborating with you again. It was a blast.

Christopher Gronlund
No…I…I had a complete blast, too, because the same thing. I mean, that whole time of our lives was neat, because somebody would come up with an idea. And instead of just, you know — now that we’re like, all in our, well…I’m in my — I’m 49. Tim’s in his early 50s. We’re all in our 40s and 50s. You don’t have, really, that ability to be like back then where, “Oh, I’ve got this idea!” And you know, then you talk about it, and then you move on. Back then it was like, “I’ve got this idea.” And then your friends are like, “All right, let’s do it!”

Tim Czarnecki
Right.

Christopher Gronlund
And next thing you know, the very night you come up with the idea, it’s like, “Holy crap — Tim’s already done concept sketches of the characters and all this,” And…that collaboration is something, as a novelist, and even just doing this because most of it is just me narrating. So actually, putting something together with other people was a lot of fun and kind of reminded me of those times.

Tim Czarnecki
Right. I agree.

Christopher Gronlund
Obviously I’ve wanted to work on something with you for some time. In this case, the voice that you use for the narrator…what really hit me, where it’s like, “We have to get Tim,” was we play Dungeons and Dragons every other week — and one week Tim just came up with this voice. And, you know, it was a little bit different than what you hear in the episode, but driving home my wife was even like, “You have to get Tim to do something for Not About Lumberjacks.”

And I was like, “Well, I mean…November I always do, for the anniversary of the show, I always do something that is not about lumberjacks, even though the word lumberjack often appears quite a bit in there.” So, uh…how much time do you put in [for] voices for the Dungeons and Dragons games that we play? And did that really help you in the role?

Tim Czarnecki
I think it did. And I think it would probably help me in other roles. It’s a little different in that when I’m doing the the voices for our D&D game, a…all of the dialogue is improvised. And when I’m sitting at the table, it’s usually just me interacting with you guys. So it’s much easier for me to kind of stay in that character and that character’s head space…and maybe do the voice more consistently.

I think when I was…when I was listening back, I was…all I could think to myself was, “I needed to slow it down just a little bit.” But I don’t ever hear myself at the table, except when I listen to the games that we play, which Chris is nice enough to record. That lets me hear what…how I’m doing on my voices, and I practice them all the time. I practice them when I’m in the shower — I do voices. When I’m working at my desk, because I’m by myself most of the time, talking to my dogs.

Christopher Gronlund
I was gonna say, but you have the dogs–

Tim Czarnecki
I have two.

Christopher Gronlund
One of whom is deaf…

Tim Czarnecki
One of whom is deaf and doesn’t hear me anyway. But when my…I…when my lips are moving, he always looks at me like I’m saying something to him. So I forget he’s deaf sometimes.

I practice voices all the time. I think it helps quite a bit. I think it helps you when you’re playing D&D as a…as a dungeon master. I’m sure this is true of most game masters that…especially ones that do silly voices at the table. You have a vision in your head of what this character is like. So you start imitating the…the gestures, the facial tics you think this character might have, and that helps make the voice consistent when you’re at the table. It’s a little bit different when you’re sitting in front of a…a microphone, especially when you’re not used to doing it. Which…this was the first time I had ever recorded anything for a podcast, so it was unusual, but I think it did help.

Christopher Gronlund
No–…And it was…it was really cool because I also sometimes run games. But one of the things with my voice is, even though it’s…you could kind of usually tell it’s me ’cause I sort of always sound a little stoned or something, even though I don’t get high. Even if it were legal — not my thing. But hey, we have stories about that from when we were younger…and the reason that it’s not a good idea for me to get stoned. But anyway…like my voice, I even…if I tried to do other voices, I have such a limited range. And that’s one of the things that I think is really impressive. And I think it’s…one of the reasons I asked this is I know you practice and you have that ability to just do all these different voices. And I think that’s one of your strengths. And it’s one of the reasons that were it’s like, “Yeah, let him be the dungeon master. He’s more fun than–

Tim Czarnecki
I don’t think that I’m necessarily more fun, but I’m glad you guys let me be the DM. It’s a lot of fun for me.

Christopher Gronlund
I think the only person that you had ever heard from the episode that you were in was Michael Howie…and that’s because he’s on a…an actual play podcast called The End of Time and Other Bothers. But what was it like hearing your voice mixed in with other people, most…mostly people that you don’t even know?

Tim Czarnecki
It was interesting. I felt like, as the narrator, there wasn’t as much interaction between the…my character in the audiodrama and the other characters. When I listened back I thought it was really…it was neat thinking that, “Oh, Chris just recorded his lines, and then so-and-so recorded their lines, and he just mashed all this together.” And to me, that’s a kind of magic that I just don’t quite understand. So it seemed amazing to me.

It did make it obvious to me, when I was listening, that I really needed to slow myself down a little bit — and I…and I wished that I had a more interesting natural voice. Like I said, when I hear me…when I listen to my voice, I hear me. That’s all I hear.

Christopher Gronlund
Yes.

Tim Czarnecki
And so, oh — I hear a guy who is talking through his nose and probably talking too fast…and doesn’t matter what character I think I’m trying to do. That’s what I hear in my head.

It…at first I was a little nervous about how I was going to stack up next to these people who do actual play podcast[s], who do voiceover work, who are really trained in this sort of thing, because I’m definitely an amateur. But it was neat to hear.

Christopher Gronlund
No… I…I had a blast putting it together and just hearing everybody come together. And…you know, just kind of going back to the game master thing: The other person who — even though you only hear him as the nice guy who comes up asking for autographs…uh, my friend Rocky Westbrook. He’s a game master and he’s kind of like you: he has that ability to just do just so many different voices. So…I guess if there’s a point there, it’s become a game…a game master for a role playing game and just practice those voices. ‘Cause you get…you definitely get the opportunity every couple of weeks.

Tim Czarnecki
And it’s a lot of fun.

Christopher Gronlund
Yeah. So now that you’ve done this once, if I ever came to you and said, “Hey, Tim, I have a role for you,” would you wanna do this again?

Tim Czarnecki
Absolutely. I would do it again in a heartbeat. I would, uh, probably even practice more than I did, and, uh, maybe have to go buy a cassette player so I could record myself beforehand to really nail the voice.

Christopher Gronlund
No, no, definitely. I understand that. I do have two things sometime in the future. I mean, obviously, I’m wrapping up a novel right now. But…one of ’em…sadly, you’d be playing an old man which–

Tim Czarnecki
[In a mock old man voice] I think I do a good old man voice. It comes naturally to me…

Christopher Gronlund
[Laughter] The saddest thing is that we’re starting to reach that age where…where you just do our normal voices. I mean it’s somebody’s grandpa, so.

But the other one is a demon and, uh…the…actually that whole demon thing came, again, from a D&D character that cracked me up.

Tim Czarnecki
[Laughter]

Christopher Gronlund
That…and it’s like, “God that voice has to be in, like, an audio drama, or even a ser…a short series,” because it cracked me up so…I’m glad that if I come to you and say, “Hey I’ve got an idea for ya,” that you’re willing to do it again.

Tim Czarnecki
Absolutely. So, if you listen to Chris on a regular basis and don’t want to hear my voice again, let him know right now.

Christopher Gronlund
Nah, everybody would want to hear you again…especially doing a demon.

Tim Czarnecki
[Laughter] I don’t know. I’d have to think about how the demon acts.

Christopher Gronlund
Yeah. Well he’s…he’s an ass. He’s pretty much the ch–…the character that you…I can’t even remember–

Tim Czarnecki
Oh, the mephits?

Christopher Gronlund
Yeah, the mephits–

Tim Czarnecki
That wanted to eat babies?

Christopher Gronlund
Yeah the one that, “I want to eat a baby–“

Tim Czarnecki
[Funny voice] I want to eat a baby…

Christopher Gronlund
That guy just cracked me up. It was like Louie DePalma from, you know, Taxi and crossed with a demon and…

Tim Czarnecki
Well just be thankful you only have to hear me do it every couple of weeks. My wife has to hear me do goofy voices all the time and…I don’t know if she thinks it’s as charming

Christopher Gronlund
[Laughter] I’m, yeah…Yeah maybe not.

Tim Czarnecki
Probably not. [Laughter]

Christopher Gronlund
Probably not. Well, is there anything else you want to say, Tim, before we go?

Tim Czarnecki
Just, thank you for the opportunity to be on Not about Lumberjacks…and to sit down and have a conversation with you. And for sharing beer with me.

Christopher Gronlund
Yes.

Tim Czarnecki
The time you and I and your lovely wife got to spend chatting beforehand.

Christopher Gronlund
Excellent. And speaking of beer, there’s one more beer, so we’re gonna go drink it.

Tim Czarnecki
Woo-hoo!

INTERVIEW ENDS

Christopher Gronlund
Writing fiction is lonely work. I’d not be the writer, or even the person I am today, had I not met Tim Czarnecki.

The times mentioned in the interview when Tim, his roommate, Mark Felps, and I were inseparable were some of the most important years of my writing life.

Last year when I interviewed Michael Howie for the Behind the Cut episode for “The Hidebehind,” I mentioned a line from Robin Sloan’s book Mr. Penumbra’s 24-Hour Bookstore that goes, “There is no immortality that is not built on friendship and work done with care.”

Those times working with Tim early on when I started writing will always live on in me.

It was such a pleasure working with him again…

Outro Theme Music Plays…

Thank you for listening to Not About Lumberjacks and Behind the Cut. Theme music for Behind the Cut is a tune called “Reaper” by Razen. Visit nolumberjacks.com for information about the music, the episodes, and the voice talent.

Next week, in honor of Christmas, I’m bringing back the literary stocking-stuffers in the form of a handful of micro fiction stories.

Until then, be mighty and keep your axes sharp.